Without that, we learn nothing. Evils and angels do not exist now or in history. Underneath both are human beings struggling to exist. You have managed to make not one, but two justifications for bayoneting children in the stomach, and in as many sentences. It does not describe those things.
It does, however, describe young women being stripped naked and raped before being drowned, children being shot in front of their mothers who are then themselves shot, and houses being burnt. No amount of perspective will decrease the perfect hideousness of those actions. Grounded hulks were used. They were packed full of manacled, naked prisoners at low tide and the victims left there to drown as the tide came in.
When it receded the next batch were taken out, where they had to remove the bodies of the previous batch, and then wait for their own deaths. It was the first example of industrialized murder, even more so than the beheadings of The Terror. They have little to no understanding of their own history.
Massacre of the natives? Japanese internment? Please do enlighten us. The fact that you become defensive and feel the need to deflect your historical angst on to Americans highlights the necessity of this type of historical reflection. A great article by Boporai unfortunately followed by sad whataboutisms by several uncritical French readers. French history of their revolution and the Napoleonic Wars is largely propaganda. And it has been supported and defended by historians even to the modern day. Look at how they defend the genius of Napoleon for example: to anybody with an objective viewpoint, the genius in the war was Wellington, not Napoleon.
Yet to this day the French become angry and irrational if someone even suggests that Napoleon not only made mistakes, he seemed incapable of learning from his mistakes. He was an admittedly atrocious leader who led to the deaths of tens of thousands of his soldiers among others and we spare no details in highlighting his many faults, again, through our public education system. So, yeah, for the Anglosphere-centric audience of this mag, the info can be both new and scintillating and provides a more rounded perspective on some history that is too often presented by our professors in the form of thinly veiled proto-Marxist agitprop.
This is not a secret, as others have mentioned in this thread. The French Revolution was no more left-wing than the American one, opening the way for capitalism to overthrow feudalism. There has been no shortage of massacres in France, from the Albigensians to the working-class revolutionaries as left as you can get of the Paris Commune in The latter were just put up against walls and shot. If you listen to some American politicians, Catholics should still not have political rights. How could a Catholic population feel safe with Protestants in its midst?
The revocation of the edict of Nantes was the safe course of action. The French Revolution was very left-wing, with property confiscation, the massacre and torture of hundreds of thousands, the banning of Christianity, the attempted killing of an entire class of people. The revolution it resembles most closely is the Russian, not the American one.
Only the Count of Artois foresaw what would happen. Had there been more like him, the massacre could have been avoided. But many nobles were in fact not opposed to a revolution. Even Louis XVI was a hero of the American Revolution, also playing at reform in France, before being executed by the French revolutionaries for his efforts. He deserved it, for being so indecisive and conciliating, unlike his brother. Not sure about the Vendeeans, though — did their naivete, in welcoming the revolution in the beginning, really earn them their fate?
Anyway, forewarned is forearmed. The suppression of the Paris Commune, just like the June Days of and the Thermidorian reaction before it, avoided an incredible bloodbath. As for capitalism, who cares. Kim Jong Un and his relatives will set up capitalism in North Korea any day now, just like the grand-children of the Communists are doing in Russia, in China, in Cuba, etc..arfidambione.ml/sexo-transexual-gratis.php
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Capitalism is natural. The question is how many capitalists you have to kill in order to become the capitalist yourself. It seems that this is always the outcome of revolutions that are, at base, ideological. Certain elites anoint themselves as the keepers of the revolutionary truth and all who differ end up dead. I agree with the French Nationals on this thread; however, I have been looking into the French Revolution on my own and after listening to multiple lectures on Audible one example , I can confirm that there is a measure of North American propaganda relating to the French Revolutionary war and the atrocities committed during that period.
There may be no illusions surrounding the French Revolution in France, but there certainly is in North America. Quite so. The Vendee massacres may be remembered in France, but not outside of it — just as an example, this essay was the first time I myself ever heard of them. It is a hideous and disgraceful affair which foreign historians have quite thoroughly suppressed from their accounts of the Revolution. This seems to be it here. Taking this further, the utopia would not be merely a happy place to live, but rather a place where the people, once purified, regress to a closed society, where they merge together, drops in an ocean.
When this happens they shed the dreadful freedom that comes from mere existence, that plagues you every moment in your ignorance and isolation, and the anxiety that comes with it. Popper called this the strain of civiliation. Left and right have nothing to do with marxism lol. It actually takes its root from the French Revolution where reformists sat on the left and conservatists sat on the right.
Not so strange, Gustav, depends completely on the blogs and their signatures you visit. What do you think Russian children were taught about the French Revolution , Liberalism and Capitalism in the Sovjet time? And maybe even now somewhere else? Absolutely abysmal and hypocritical use of history for ideological aims. That was but one of many outrages and massacres that characterise the history of the region.
History will repeat itself with even more viciousness when the Islamic republic of France is born a couple of generations hence. Whenever I was taught about the French Revolution as a kid it was being portrayed as a good thing. But no conversation about the subject could escape from mention of the guillotine and mass executions. I have always been troubled by victors who deem it necessary to kill their defeated enemies in cold blood.
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That speaks about their character more loudly than their military success. What is written here in horrific, but entirely within what I would expect from the French Revolution. I fear, every nation has had its genocide, smaller or bigger, recent or old. The Germans massacred the whole Herrero tribe in South Africa, with more or less consent of their own anthropologists.
The Dutch once massacred the whole Ambon population except a few fugitives , that refused logically to sell their nutmegs to the Dutch only, to ensure a monopoly of that nutmeg very profitable business due to that monopoly. The Dutch Colonial Company criticed this behaviour, though, and that colonial misbehaviour is taught on elementary school. In the colonial museum KIT of Amsterdam yes, that exists ,this misbehaviour is extensively shown, as well as other less severe actions, and no longer any positive actions and policy, such as the railways built there, the extensive irrigation systems, schools, medical services etc etc.
Maybe, Saw file, I reason too much as a European, with their old and colonial or empiral histories. Of course, Canada is so young, born only after the declaration of all those human rights manifests, that they may claim to be free of such horrendous crimes. Occasionally the USA would attempt unsuccessfully to invade Canada. Depending on how you define it, the Riel Rebellion or the Fenian Uprising could be exceptions, though. Jeffrey: if you want to extend the concept to cultural genocide, there is probably no nation on earth still on daily term committing this form of genocide.
We have the case right now of closing down an islam school trying to, against the freedom of education where we suspect that the teachers are too eager to indoctrinate the students with salafism and other undemocratic ideas. Cultural genocide?? Dirk Your post, while not incorrect, is a good reflection of Eurocentric guilt and the problem with the current humanities paradigm. The idea that European imperialism, genocides, and slavery are exceptional and unusual in the human experience is racist by definition.
The scope, relative magnitude, and murderous epusodes in Islamic, African, Asian history are every bit as cruel and horrific as anything that befell Native Americans and First Nation peoples. This us why a leftist humanities education fails here, and why nations currently under its yolk are tearing themselves to shreds. History should be taught as a human individual experience, and not as an ideologically slanted intersectional one.
What I know , Saw, is that it took far into the 19th century before the first Canadian rebellions against the British colonial government began, so, rather recently I would say. Luther even preached one to start against the peasants in Bavaria. Both much earlier than the French one in the Vendee. The USA occasionally unsuccessfully attempted to invade to land gab. The Fenian Uprising or the Riel Rebellion could be exceptions, depending on definitions. Are the latter ones free of committing massacres since Colon? Comparable with the Ambon or Vendee crimes? Of course, we are not taking here about tribal and civil wars, neither about war crimes.
Though, again here, with exception of the Polish soldiers fighting for freedom at the side of the blacks. Lucky ones! I was in Paris during the bicentennial of the French Revolution. Pingback: Linkathon! Pingback: the Vendee Uprising, in the press historyncsu. I was a history major in college and took an upper level course on the French Revolution with one of the most respected professors in the department. He was old school, very demanding and very tough, but the class was excellent and I learned a lot.
However, I never learned about this. I think, Richard, this has to do with the extent to which you are a good and proud nationalist.
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I have experience with these sentiments in African nations, rather young ones though without much influence , and not quick to admit any misbehaviour but rather eager to expose the colonial misbehaviour of the European nations and the US. And what about Arab and Turkey nations? You better swallow your criticism when there.
I have heard several times that the truth eventually come out. We only get to hear the truth that does come out. The News of today will be the History of tomorrow. Quite easy, I think. Nothing new under the sun. The writer is not French, the situation was a concrete happening in France, and the commenters are mostly American, but also some French. How are the comments now? Let me try. Frenchman 2: never heard about that episode, is that really true??. Frenchman 3: and whatabout the Americans, the massacres there, the Sandcreek, Cherokees and such?? American 1: Maybe there, in the continent, Europe, not with us, never.
What moved me most in the comments above: Lydia, shocked by her daughter shocked by that sweet old Italian lady, and neighbour so, one of us, innocents , telling about her sweet youth memory of an encounter with fascist Mussolini. Can this really be?? Is this the USA?? Thanks for the article. History is utterly fascinating. Not just the facts or quasi-facts or selected facts, but how it both reflects and frames our present.
Also the way different people view it. Some commenters are insulted that some sort of distortion of facts is highlighted. Others see lessons for the present. Some filter events through a modern moral lens. It is as fun to read the comments as it is the article. My children are often in the moral lens camp. I think modern education teaches history with a heavy dose of judgement.
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I often remind them that history is simply something that happened in the past. It will color the present and future. We are all who and where we are because all of these events, good and bad, happened. Change any of it and we would no longer be who and where we are. From direct personal history to broader world history it is the same. Debates and discussion of context and importance are fun and stimulating and sometimes even important. Keep these articles coming! Whataboutism overdrive in the comments, as in any article that exposes the rubbish of dominant leftist historiography.
Educated french people may know. It is about the prevailing and not just in the anglosphere romanticized version of the Revolution that is passed as erudite research even today. It took me 30 years to learn of this, and I, while no sort of an intelectual, am reasonably well-read and have a particular interest in history. Make of that as you will cue the responses calling me an ignorant buffoon. Epirote: if you are really interested in history and historiography and hagiography , you must know that romanticed historiography is the rule in any national canon, and not the exception.
Just imagine, the recent history that Algeria presents in their elementary school, for their future kids, or what France writes about it. Typically revolutions go like this: First the revolutionaries rise against the old order, and a shitload of people gets killed. Then, if they win, they start fighting among themselves, and a shitload of people gets killed. End result: Three shitloads of people get killed and the survivors are less free than before.
Certainly there are exceptions, but this pattern is common enough to be considered the usual course of a revolution. Early French Revolution historiography has been a template for the glorification of leftist ends-justifies-the-means movements since the Revolution itself. Nationalism has long ceased to be the main engine that supports this distortion and obfuscation of history.
So, Epirote, you think that obfuscation is a left hobby, and that the right is more sincere and objective? Turkey will not easily admit that they committed a genocide, though, the rest of the world does. France, I fear, also will not admit that the Vendee was a genocide though some agree , they will picture the massacre as an upheaval of peasants, a civil war with cruel casualties. How else can you instill national feelings in youngsters of 7 or 8 years old? What if you cannot teach them that the French are a special people, with special cultural features and a great history?
Am I right here, Emmanuel? I still remember very well what was told to us in the history booklets of elementary school, I tell you, quite another story than in that of the English , Spanish and the French our enemies at times. Looks like the Yellow Vests have inspired a modern retelling of an obscure event in French history. Visiting Brittany as a schoolboy in the fifties I heard about this massacre, so it was not unknown.
I was told it also explained why the Breton were so against Vichy in WW2. My observation is that in the episode that this article covers, nationalist motivated air-brushing such as the one you refer to is not the main obfuscating force at present. Marxist inspired pro-revolutionary discourse is. Anyway, you may carry on; I take my leave from the discussion.
Me too, epirote. Maybe others have still something to ad. Ayn Rand wrote an introduction to a reissue in Rather totalitarian, but who can oppose it? Not me! As always, Quillette is terrified of anything that smacks of revolution. As many posters here have pointed out, these atrocities are hardly lost to history. If only the French had accepted the excesses of their government and their inability to mount a non-violent and systemic political change, right?
Merci pour ca, Jean. Anne Applebaum in her book Gulag defines a gulag as a prison where you are sent not for what you do, but for what you are. The Secret History On March 4 , the French historian Reynald Secher discovered documents in the National Archives in Paris confirming what he had known since the early s: there had been a genocide during the French Revolution. Keepers of the Flame The first major Revolutionary mythographer was the journalist and politician Adolphe Thiers , who became the first President of the Third Republic of France in Other peasants at Saint-Julien-de-Concelles asked: What?
Justice for Brigands From April , local authorities began to round up suspected brigands in groups of 30 or 40 and execute them without trial. As General Salomon had reminded his men June 17 while they waited for reinforcements: This is a war of brigands: it calls for all of us to become brigands. Purification Begins The Revolutionary Army now outnumbered the brigands, and was far better armed. Share this: Pocket. A gripping read of horrific events. Thanks, Mr Boparai.
Saw file says. Adam says. Charlie says. Anita says. Excellent essay, Leftist revolutionaries never count the dead. Damian O'Connor says. Galway Boy says. Except that we deplorables will not be fighting back with sticks, clubs and farm implements. ArnoldDarem says. ArnoldDarem — google killing robots?
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Omega Man says. Maree says. George G says. SommeVerdun says. Aylwin says. Tersitus says. Morgan Foster says. What parts of the article do that? Or is it the subject matter itself? Uncle Max says. EK says. RD says. Cville Centrist says. MB says. Stephanie says. If murder and rape of women and children is not impure, What is? Charlie Not believing in the theory that anything necessary to make a socialist state? Look at the post — birth abortion discussion?
No morals, ect. Smorc Control says. Shawn T says. Nicolas says. Paul Hackett oceanclub says. JB says.
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Jay Raskin says. Larry says. MMS says. Bretonne says. Jay says. GSW says. Jack B. Nimble says. Napoleon was a vile monster who is still loved by the French as a great hero. The father of a British schoolboy who disappeared on a holiday island off the south of France during a severe storm has admitted that hopes of finding him alive are fading. Pierre Barnes, 12, vanished on Saturday after going for a bike ride on the island of Porquerolles, near Toulon on the Mediterranean coast. His father, Stephen, 57, from Grantham in Lincolnshire, said that when the youngster embarked on the trip the weather was calm and sunny and there was no hint of the oncoming storm.
Describing Pierre as a "lovable and slightly eccentric little chap", he told the Daily Telegraph: "My wife told him he could go out on his bike for a quarter of an hour. I warned him it could get caught in the chain. Barnes and his French wife, Florence, 43, had arrived on the island just hours earlier with Pierre and their other children, Zoe, 17, Desmond, 15, and Clemence, 13, for a cycling holiday during the half-term break. More than local volunteers joined the search to find Pierre and the day after he disappeared rescuers found one of his shoes on a coastal path, alongside his bike with its chain off.
Barnes admitted that, despite the "tremendous response" from the local community and the search teams, his hopes for his son were fading.
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